Jul 30 Podcast #436: Are High End Audio/Video Retailers a Dying Breed?
We all know someone who has to own the absolute best gear on the market. They don't care how much it costs. Whether its a receiver that "reproduces sounds that only dogs can hear" or its the guy who buys the most expensive video processor for his equally expensive projector, we all have stories of friends or acquaintances that match that description.
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Today's Show:
News:
- End of the Road for DISH Network’s DTVPal DVR
- FeedFlix Finds Some Netflix Subscribers Might be Better off With Redbox
- ThinkFlood Issues a RedEye Recall
- Audyssey Expands TV, Mobile-Device Portfolio
- Netflix delights studios with big checks
Other:
- Evidently Netflix already is a production company
- One for All OARP05S Universal Remote Control
- UltraViolet Online Movie Locker...Freedom of Entertainment
Are High End Audio/Video Retailers a Dying Breed?
We all know someone who has to own the absolute best gear on the market. They don't care how much it costs. Whether its a receiver that "reproduces sounds that only dogs can hear" or its the guy who buys the most expensive video processor for his equally expensive projector, we all have stories of friends or acquaintances that match that description.
Do you remember chains that focused solely on A/V. We all remember The Good Guys, Tweeter, and in Southern California Ken Crane's just to name a few. Today many of us buy our electronics at Best Buy, Costco, Wal*Mart, or online from Amazon. You have to look hard to find a brick and mortar store that exclusively sells A/V equipment. What's going on? Do we no longer care about quality audio and video? Or more likely, equipment has become much better and we can now have a high quality experience from low price gear.
Video
Let's take a look at TVs first. Ara's first HDTV (which is still in use) was a $4,000 DLP that measured 50 inches. Three years later Ara bought another DLP for his media room. It measured 65 inches and cost $2,000. It produces a picture that is dramatically improved over the 50 inch DLP. Both are properly calibrated. Two years ago Ara bought a 37 inch LCD TV that produced a better picture out of the box than the $4000 DLP. The point here being that TVs have become so good you don't have to spend a lot of money for very high quality. In fact, videophile grade Plasmas and projectors can be had for less than what Ara paid for his original DLP. Please don't misunderstand what we are saying. There are still very high end TVs that cost much more than $4,000, we're just saying that there isn't much difference between the top of the line consumer grade and Videophile products. And as such, there is no reason to visit a specialty store to purchase your TV.
Next we'll look at Blu Ray players. Even the cheapest Blu Ray player will produce a picture that is superior to the best DVD player; provided that the Blu Ray disc was masted properly. That means for $99 we can have a picture that looks better than the most expensive DVD player produced just 5 years ago. Are there premium players on the market today, sure. But the cost is usually in the upconversion process of DVDs. If you are all Blu Ray, then you have videophile quality without the price. Why would you spend $1000 on a Blu Ray player when it won't produce a significantly better picture than the $100 player?
Audio
A similar argument can be applied to audio equipment. Just two years ago if you wanted to get into the next generation audio game you needed to shell out a minimum of $1000. Today a $300 receiver from Pioneer, Yamaha, or Onkyo can do the same thing. What about sound leveling, auto calibration, height channels, and seven channels? Once the domain of expensive high end gear, all these features are available in receivers that go for $700.
The only place we haven't seen a dramatic decline in prices are speakers. Good speakers can make a $500 receiver sound like $1000 receiver. The converse is true also so don't cheap out when buying speakers. The good news is with all the money you save on your TV, Blu Ray Player, and Receiver, you can afford a good set of speakers. This is an area that a good specialty store can provide a service. But even still, as good as speakers sound in a store, they will sound differently when you get them home. Some online speaker companies will give you a no risk 30 day free in home trial. That way you can hear exactly how they will sound in your home. No guessing!
What does this all mean?
Unless high end retailers can provide some sort of reason for you to spend money in their stores, they are going to find themselves out of business. These stores typically charge more for their products than Best Buy or online retailers. Jerry Del Colliano has some ideas in his article Is Today's Home Theater Equipment Too Good?
A/V Retailers need to:
- be priced competitive but more importantly - they must offer more value.
- provide longer warranties
- provide professional calibration
- offer low-cost in-home support,
- sell top brands
We'd add they need to provide door to door service. Buy the TV this afternoon watch it tonight, on a calibrated and fully installed system.
One of the last sentences in his article sums it up beautifully, "If the AV business cannot more clearly illustrate why specialty audio is in fact special, then expect more stores and regional chains to fold in the coming months even as the economy improves, simply perhaps fueled by the fact that mainstream home theater gear is just too good."
Reader Comments (10)
Hi guys great show, like always.
Awesome topic today, I hope no self called "Audiophiles" get offended but I think paying to much for an audio receiver/speakers and wires is a bit too much, some folks even get speaker wire that resembles a water hose in thickness claiming they'll get "SUPER AUDIO" out of it or some kind of weird "CD demagnetizer" just to make music sound better.
I all I think these hard economic times are gonna make some ppl think twice about spending $300 on a HDMI cable.
Keep up the wood work guys I love the show!
If the highend stopped rebadging products and actually offered something better then people would buy it. Now days people do not buy into the placebo effect that has carried the high end since the start.
3 points
Brady's Vmail: I wasn't offended by Braden's comment that, once we reach double digits in age, we don't watch the same movie over & over again, but that may be because I know I've never grown up. I've already seen "Inception" 4.5 times @the cinema, and saw "Dark Knight" (also dir. Christopher Nolan) 5 times @the cinema. Some of my DVDs are sorted by occasion, and I watch those (~20) every year, along with Deadwood, and Smallville s1 thru 5. And there are hundreds of movies & TV shows that I rewatch, but less frequently.
I'm also dissatisfied with the lack of special features on streaming
Audiophilia: I don't really give a load of dingo's kidneys whether I offend any of your tone-deaf listeners or not, but anyone who thinks you need more than two speakers to fully express a sound field that is in front of you, and doesn't go below 35Hz, has never experienced audiophile sound. Almost the entire point of 5.1 systems is to compensate for the fact that it isn't audiophile sound, though you may need a sub for movie sound effects that are felt as much as heard
Feedflix: I expected to see an average cost/flik less than Braden's, but it comes up with $1.15 for me. One of two things (possibly both) must be happening:
It calculates on the life of my membership (I only started watching streaming a year ago)
It counts TV seasons as one movie (about half of my viewing is TV shows)
I agree with the caller about special features, its annoying that netflix and streaming lack these. While its true 90% of dvds special features are not worth watching, the 10% that are are very good. It depends entirely on the quality of the film as well. Sometimes esp for films that were made before your time the special features if well done give context to the film.
That being said I agree that most films aren't worth rewatching, and i rarely rewatch films, there is just too much i haven't seen to spend time rewatching a film dozens of times like some people do. I don't understand that level of lack of curiosity.
Well first a high-end receiver does not cost $1,000 more like $5,000 and above. Now the sound is very different (I've had $700, $1300 and $5000), the higher priced model is much better than the lower priced ones, although I do agree for the average Joe it does not matter. But we're not talking about the average Joe, we're talking about folks who are passionate about audio and video, so they exist and will pay premium price for their gear. Now as it concerns the high-end retailers you missed the most important point, they do not treat the customer well, unless you appear to be very rich and show up in a high priced sports car, they don't give you the time of the day! I'll never forget a B&W dealer who told me I could only come to his shop if I had an appointment and the system I was looking at would cost me $10000 at least. I never went back. Little did he know I spent much more than that!
In sum, high end retailers are not looking for the right customers, they want movie starts, sports players, in other words, very rich folks, but they don't cater to the ones who really have a passion for audio and video, whom necessarily may not be wealthy but willing to slowly build their systems. They should foster a community around audio and video in their neighboorhood and dissiminate the importance of proper audio and video gear and setup and not make it hard for folks who want just to come to the store and listen (and watch)!
The high end stores were great a few years ago when the only other choice was Best Buy. The one in my area carried everything from $69 Grado headphones to $100k pipedreams. I called a few years ago and inquired about a pair of B & W 602's & a Marantz Receiver. When I arrived they were set-up in a small listening room waiting for me. They were bought out by one of the high-end custom installation companies a few years ago.
Unfortunately the diminishing marginal returns of a high end system with the associated CD/DVD Audio/SACD/ etc...has lost to a more convenient way to enjoy music. I have a simple system that sounds darn good (Marantz, Magnepan, Emotiva) sourced by (gasp) and Apple TV with music that in some cases isn't ripped to the lossless format (double gasp). I listen a lot more because it is convenient and fun...that's why I began this journey 20 years ago.
I really enjoy many extras, such as Director's Commentary or 'The Making of the Movie'. I don't understand the motives of some studios going to the expense of re-authoring BD's to NOT include the extras contained on the 'for sale' versions. I think Netflix should make a note in their descriptions of the movie that it is a stripped down version with little, if any, of the extras contained on the 'for sale' disk. It would be my choice not to rent the abridged version nor buy it because of the studios decision.
I listened to the show on my way to work this morning and physically choked on my breakfast bar when Braden talked about a movie he watched that should be avoided like "the clap".
Idea for you....you already have Top Ten Tasha. Maybe you should consider another spin-off named something like "Flix to Avoid Like the Clap". I don't know Tasha, but I wouldn't think she would want to host a show with that name :)
Mark
The thing that higher end (not necessarily the ultra high price ones) dealers offered you was access to listening to those better loudspeakers you talked about. The big box stores simply don't carry higher quality loudspeakers because they take up too much space and need proper demonstration facilities. If you want access to better speakers, there is still a need for dealers who can offer and demonstrate them.
Also more expensive receivers and separate components tend to have much better amplifier sections and the ability to provide their power rating into all channels. Many $300-500 receivers can't deliver much power when all channels are driven, especially to the rear channels. Not a factor most of the time but there are times when you really need that power delivered to all the speakers.
I have got caught up in the high end audio bullshit. Wishing I had a better system with greater clarity that somehow reached a magical sweet spot, I purchased and returned two high end audio receivers. Before either purchase I read countless websites and magazines researching the topic. Most of the websites and comments spoke in a language that I didn't quite understand. Now I know why. The passionate people who claim not to be average joes are missing their clothes. But of course If I had of kept either of receivers that cost over $1000.00 I would not admit to not hearing a difference either. And I too would be naked claiming to wear a wonderful robe.
Too me it comes down to content. Is it good and has it been mixed properly?
When buying my next receiver I think features are more important. Will it stream audio and video content from the net or my computer? Will it read the latest file formats? Is it easy to hook up? Is the onscreen display easy to understand and can I make adjustments without problems from my remote? For less than $500.00 I can find this. But of course my 10 year old HK is still doing a great job and I will wait for it to break down.
It seems that the high end stereo shops are selling alot of the same products as Best Buy without the advantages of lower prices and better return policies. I would much rather speek to a non commissioned salesperson who dosn't know what he's talking about than a high end audio salespeople feeding me a line of shit in hopes of making a commision. People are spending way to much money trying to chase something they will never find. I will not be sad to see the high end audio shop go.